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Saturday, September 06, 2008

Spice Speaks on the Bra Issue

The following is a letter to blogger "voluptuous masquerader" that was also copied to Trinidad Carnival Diary:


Dear VM,



Thank you for your inquiry. I am responding to you on behalf of Spice.



Firstly there is no controversy as we have never denied anyone a large or small bra size.



The reality is that we recently had ONE masquerader request a size in a particular FRONTLINE of a very in-demand section called Paprika. This masquerader was advised that the very large sizes were sold out in this FRONTLINE and when offered the size in the regular section of Paprika or in another section of the band they refused. This individual seemed bent on making an issue of this and sadly seemed prepared to use any means to do so including distorting the truth, to the extent that they CREATED a story that they went to the mas camp with their friends and everyone else was allowed to sign up and she was refused. I can tell you with absolute certainty that this never happened and what actually happened was that this individual actually called in by phone. It is this ill intent on that individual’s part that has fuelled some debate.



Now, producing a band is a very complex undertaking especially in the first year. The average person perceives that costume production begins in January when in fact it begins as far back as September and October of the preceding year. Herein lies the challenge, particularly for new bands, as most of the major suppliers give PREFERENCE to their established clients, which in most cases include Tribe, Island People, Trini Revellers etc.



What this means is that many of these suppliers simply do not have the capacity to take on work and additional production in the October to December period. As a result, production schedules are brought forward even earlier to August - September. As a new band this was the dilemma SPICE faced as the bra, shorts and other suppliers gave 31st July deadlines for orders. I can tell you for a fact that the supplier of the shorts turned down the band’s business initially due to commitments to IP and Tribe and only reconsidered after we agreed to a very early production date of September and leveraged our relationship with them through other members of the band who give that supplier business through their other companies.



The downside of this entire arrangement was that SPICE had to ESTIMATE the sizes to order. In so doing we ordered more of the standard sizes and fewer of the extra small and extra large sizes in keeping with the buying trends of masqueraders as we know them to be.



I would like to add that SPICE has several well seasoned and highly experienced individuals when it comes to mas. Many of these persons have done successful sections for years in various bands including Poison and Tribe. In fact the collective experience in mas exceeds 50 years. It was this experience that was drawn upon when calculating the ratio of various sizes to order in each section FRONTLINE and REGULAR.



With regard to the FRONTLINES, most have a maximum of 15-20 costumes which is inline with the industry standard. We allocated in every frontline approximately 3 extra large sizes and 3 extra small sizes. Now note the following:



In the case of frontlines with a maximum of 15 costumes the allocation of 3 extra large sizes represent 20% of the total stock allocation
In the case of frontlines with a maximum of 20 costumes the allocation of 3 extra large sizes represent 15% of the total stock allocation
In the case of frontlines with a maximum of 15 costumes the allocation of 3 extra small sizes represent 20% of the total stock allocation
In the case of frontlines with a maximum of 20 costumes the allocation of 3 extra small sizes represent 15% of the total stock allocation
Collectively that means that 30-40% of our frontline stock was allocated to SPECIAL small and big sizes


The reality is that this is not an unreasonable allocation and when translated into actual numbers it represents 3 extra large costumes allocated for each of the 8 frontline sections as Mediterranean Borage and Garden of Sage do not have frontlines. This therefore represents a total of 24 extra large size costumes available across the entire band. So what you have collectively for your frontlines across the entire band is a ratio of:

24 extra large costumes
24 extra small costumes
Approximately 72 costumes to now split between small, medium and large – which if evenly split gives 24 each.
A collective total of 120 frontline costumes.


Finally, our core committee does include some full figured persons and out of the 24 extra large costumes available overall, at least 12 were taken IMMEDIATELY by these persons when registration opened on the 25th July and the rest were taken up by registrations at the mas camp within the first few days. So sadly we did not have these sizes to offer online by the time the “online store” opened a week or two ago, but we did honor any costumes booked in large sizes via the online application process which preceded the online store.



It is worth noting that nearly all of the band’s frontline sections are now fully sold out and I expect that this will be posted in the next few days.



I sincerely hope that this email will answer your questions and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts, feedback and suggestions on this matter.



I have also chosen to copy Saucy of “trinicarnivaldiary” whose blog carried an article related to this matter.



Hopefully this email will help to clarify things for everyone.



Should you have any further questions or comments please feel free to email them to admin@spicecarnival.com



Best Regards,



M



Team Spice

Spice Carnival Band Limited


I would like to state that the young lady in question did not go to the mas camp to register for her costume as she does not live in Trinidad. I am unsure as to how this information has translated into now accusing the young lady in question of "making up stories" as when I wrote on the bra issue nothing was said about going to the mas camp.

And while I can understand ratios and deadlines there are suppliers in Trinidad who will do a special sized bra, as pointed out to Anya by Anthony (of Richard and Anthony productions designers of eight sections of Spice). The fact remains that this explanation, to me, is just a justification of their actions. And, there is nothing mentioned about allowing the masquerader to bring their own bra. If other bands can do it, and Spice IS speaking about what other bands are doing in THIS letter, why can't THEY allow masqueraders to bring their own bra as well?

This practice of allocating sizes is just another form of marginalizing certain size labels; as I said before why not just allow a masquerader to register with their individual size details and then sumbit their sizes to a producer LIKE TRIBE DOES? Surely the commitee member from "TRIBE" could have informed Spice of how this is done!Hopefully they will learn from this for Carnival 2010 and realise that all their "averages" are for nought as clearly there are more masqueraders wanting larger bra sizes than they anticipated!



34 comments:

elsa said...

Saucy, is Spice trying to tell us that the entire band is only catering to only 24XL costumes, I would love to know that exactly is an extral large constume, what is their sizing criteria, for example if someone is a size 42D bra will I fall into the XL or XXL sizing critieria. To me it sounds like Spice is dancing around the main problem. I do understand that as a new band they have to order their bras and underwear ahead of time. But as Trinidadian, the average person is a medium. I find that very hard to believe. Is Spice allowing someone to bring their own bra to decorate. Nothing is said in the letter in reference to this.

Tr|n|gYa| said...

My my my...I would have been mad as a toro if I had a representative from a business calling me, one of their potentially new masquerader a L-I-A-R.


"Hopefully they will learn from this for Carnival 2010 and realise that all their "averages" are for nought as clearly there are more masqueraders wanting larger bra sizes than they anticipated!"

They need to DESIST from pre-ordering sizes!!
Maybe if a rep from Spice sat me down, they could try to explain things better..but right now, maaaan that lengthy explanation FAILED miserably.

Goddess said...

Sounds like an awful lot of blah blah blah blah to me.......moving on!

Hot said...

I think you misinterpret M's email. You need to read more carefully 24 XL FRONTLINES out of 120. NOT THE ENTIRE BAND.

There were also 24 XS, 24 L, 24M, 24S. Even spread so what's discriminatory about that????? Should the band allocate more to XL wouldn't that be discriminating against XS, L, M and S????

As for calling anybody a liar, M is just stating what happened. You can choose to call it what you will. But the story being floated by some was that the masquerader and her friends came to sign up in the mas camp and she was denied a sign up and this never happened.

The special sized masqueraders who signed up early have their FRONTLINE costumes and are happy, those who moved late can play in regular or not, its a matter of choice. But no matter how much emails we all write it won't change the fact that the band cannot sell what it does not have.

I agree with goddess, let's move on.

foreignoutsider said...

While I have not been involved in this dramatice storyline, I must respond to Spice's response letter as it struck a nerve (as a foreign-based Trini). Spice, please remember the cardinal rule of business...."The customer is ALWAYS right". Instead the tone of your response was both nasty and unprofessional. I will not comment on the lengthy explanation given (although fraught with logical inconsistencies). But I must tell you that you cannot speak to people in this disrespectful manner. This is not only Trinidad you are addressing but people in a global society, who are used to a standard of professional etiquette in business.

Instead of violating this customer's right to a private and amicable resolution of the dispute, you chose to publicly attack the masquerader with insults and innuendo. This public display of nasty temperament is offensive to me as a non-Spice masquerader. I am sure that others as well will be turned off by your language. Not a good way to make a first impression in your initial year.

While I initially had interest in your band, I can firmly say that I would never give my hard money to a band that would publicly humiliate its masqueraders for ANY reason. My hard-earned money is going elsewhere.

May I also say that by reading the comments of your representative "Hot", I would also suggest that you all get together to revamp your image to a more business-like one.

HQ said...

I was going to comment, but I think foreignoutsider has eloquently and succinctly summed up my feelings on the dialogue that Spice has engaged in. I would like to add how disappointed I am in this debacle, for I had reviewed the Spice costumes and really enjoyed the look of the 2009 presentation. But after interaction on this blog with Hot and seeing communications from the band, I too am very turned off. The tone used is simply unneccesary.

Best of luck to you Spice!

ClassyLadiiD23 said...

Actually u know what hot, that is a pack of bull from both you AND M! The young lady that tried to register with Spice, in Paprika BACKLINE and was denied EMAILED the band because she did not see her size listed on the site. She does NOT live in Trinidad and did NOT visit the mas camp, so maybe you should check up on your facts, both of you. She also did NOT even respond to Spice once she was told that they could/would not produce her size. Hot, you have been going on responding to an issue that arose in a situation that you don't seem to know very much about, and now this statement from M who doesn't seem to know the facts either and has the nerve to accuse the young lady of 'distorting the truth'... WOW!Think about all these FACTS and then you tell us who is 'distorting the truth'.
I think that both you and whomever else claims to be a Spice rep need to check the facts and come again and either address the REAL issue here or don't address it at all! But yes, by all means move along and hope that somehow skirting around the issue and calling the girl a liar makes it go away. :-/

Tr|n|gYa| said...

I want to address hot's response.

Let me just primarily state that my statements are not meant to slander Spice's decision-making capabilities, as I have friends who work with them. Nevertheless, as a new band, do expect constructive criticism.

There was nothing stated in my post as Spice's practices as discriminatory, so ease off one time.
I will say though, that the decision to pre-order sizes is a poor customer practice that is becoming all too regular, for the common-sense reasoning that some masqueraders wishing to play with a band will be locked out of that chance because the band made a decision which they THOUGHT would cater to the demographic they are trying to target. This is why Spice is probably in the position of unable to be "selling what they don't have".


That is addressing point #1.

Punto numero dos, you encapsulated the essence of this blog when you stated that "You can call it what you want". There are two sides of a coin, and as a masquerader who has had bra-sizing problems in the past, I opine that demonizing a potential masquerader emanating from a sizing issue was not the right way to go. Maybe putting that at the top of the email wasn't the best way to go- it sets a particular tone.

I agree with goddess as well, however, with a diversion- let's "move on" in the hopes that Spice- and other bands- will take note of the plight of full-figured masqueraders.

Let's clean up the act!

dougla_1 said...

"The customer is ALWAYS right".

Hmmm,...in an ideal world perhaps. Can we realistically say there are no costomers out there who are unreasonable, rude, and have a nasty attitude when they do not have their way? The price is not right, or I am paying my money so just do anything I want or I will throw a trantrum. Sometimes something you may want may just not be for you (I am not marginalizing the issue of larger sized bra issues of the LIMITED frontline costumes).

No my lady, sometimes the customer is NOT always right.

Observer said...

Don't agree that Hot was rude in any way. It have a few bloggers who saying all kinda nasty things about Spice. So if Hot get firm with them and put them in their place she right. Like some of you ain't read the real dread things bloggers saying about Spice when this issue first come up and they saying it without any facts to support, typical Trinis. Spice I there with y'all. Done sign up and the experience was very, very satisfactory. Mr. M your letter explained things very well to those who have sense and choose to listen.

foreignoutsider said...

Dougla_1 I think you do not understand the meaning of that statement. It is not purely literal. What it does mean is that the onus is on the business person to peacefully resolve disputes with the utmost in courtesy and respect. If a customer is ranting and screaming, it never justifies the salesperson doing the same. While ideally we all should be civil, we all as customers have been dissatisfied at some point or the other. This frustration is at times conveyed loudly to the the business person who MUST be adequately skilled in conflict resolution. It is on this level that Spice has failed.

Anyone who has worked in customer service successfully can confirm this principle for you. Remember there is more at stake for the salesperson (ie loss of business, reputation etc) than for the consumer who can take his/her business elsewhere.

And while you seem to imply that this customer was somewhat "wrong" for demanding the appropriate bra size or other accommodation, I don't see this request as unreasonable (not for an exorbitant fee at least).

Mas-ah said...

It makes me a little uncomfortable that the face of truth and equality on the side of spice is merely represented by the letter m.

If it is truth you speak then open up a course for redress. I don't know why bands don't just speak their truths, you don't want tooo many big bust beauties 'spoiling' your image, ok fine!

it is not the brightest move to go about defending positions that are not securely placed in logic and actuality on this your maiden year.

M and HOT do not allude to trustworthiness, for us to trust you , you need to show us that you have nothing to fear in speaking the truth, remember how wyatt dealt with it?

How do we know that 'SPICE' is a fair and equal playground for all?

Because 'M' say so, and 'HOT' back him up, who de hell is them?

we need a name, a person a real human being dealing with these issues not some psuedonyms and a lengthy as hell explanation, that does not add up.

Hot said...

I know that Saucy knows who M is and M knows who Saucy is. In the world of blogging people adopt screenames. Also I beleive that Saucy put on the blog a copy of correspondence between M and another person called VM and what she did was remove his identity. Saucy is that so?

DeRedting said...

Since the Spice team has decided to compare themselves to TRIBE, here is how TRIBE handled a similar situation in 2007. I am an overseas mas player and was signed up to play in Black Magic, I ordered a "Bridal Foundation Corset" in an "exotic" size. By the end of September 2007 I got a call from Monique Nobriga (sp?) herself (I do not know her personally nor do I have any VIP status in Tribe)saying that regretfully they could not obtain the exact size that I needed and they wanted to explore other options with me. In a 10 minute conversation we were able to resolve the issue with TRIBE custom making a Tankini top to carry "da twins". There was no extra cost associated with this either. The end result. . . I came down on Carnival Sat, got my costume which fit quite well and was happy as a pig in mud.

Spice I say all this to tell you that as a new business your reputation is built upon your product and how you treat your patrons. The tone of your responses, (perhaps unintentionally)has served to aggrivate the situation more. Your customers are paying $500USD and up for a custom made item so it is not unreasonalbe for them to request a size and expect every effort made to accomodate them. IF this request cannot be accomodated in the exact manner demanded then every effort must be made to find an alternative way. I belive in this case the customer was willing to supply her own bra and pay what ever extra costs that go with that. Calling a customer a "liar" is not good public relations and as foreignoutsider said before the business (aka you) has much more to lose (business, reputation etc) than the customer who can (and I hope has) taken their money elsewhere. Call IP what you want but last time they had similar issues Wyatt came out front and took the heat. He never called anyone a liar; and since I have not heard any more complaints from full figured IP mas players, I would like to think that even IP has found their way,

Thank you for allowing me to put my two cents in on behalf of "da twins". Spice I hope that by 2010 you have found a better way to handle this situation that will always exist as long as there are curvy women in the world.

DeRedting

DeRedting said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bignbeautiful said...

As a very large masquerader I was pleasantly shocked by the treatment I received from Spice. I have played with many bands over the years from Harts, Island People and Tribe and I was quite suprised by the treatment I received. I went to the bandhouse 2weeks ago to sign up and I must say from the very start I was made to feel welcome and at home and like family. A beautiful young lady named Anya spent over half hour with me answering questions and helping me to choose my section. In all my years I have played mas no one has ever given me this kind of time and individual attention. With all that is going on I felt I had to step in and say something. Big Thumbs up Spice :)

Ny2Cali said...

What stands out to me is not where we have been but where we are going? If SPICE wants to accommodate customers for whom they have no supply, it seems the masses are saying that they can-- (e.g., they could use another supplier or charge masqueraders for the extra expense of bringing in their own bras). Although SPICE may have a valid reason for sticking to their original game plan and deviating, they have not explained this and instead have engaged in a he said she said -leaving a bad taste and impression in the public eye. I think M attempted to meet this head on but failed by focusing on the wrong message of what happened in the past as opposed to what, if anything, we will do about this in the future.

I am not a business person and I won’t pretend to be an expert on customer relations but I don’t think it’s necessary to tell the public your business plan and set forth all of your calculations. There are simpler ways to address this issue and maintain professionalism. For example, TRIBE put the public on notice months in advance that they were reducing the size of their band and they also put everyone on notice of their TLC policy. TRIBE faced a lot of criticism, had some delays and took the opportunity to address issues head on. In my opinion, although they could not accommodate everyone, they waited until they had solution, valid reason or at least a clear message- they thought out what they would communicate to the public and only communicated their message when it was strong and concise. SPICE has only communicated that “they cannot sell what they do not have” and they have not addressed the concerns of masqueraders who want to support them. Although they do not have to say a word more on the issue, it might help their image if they did after taking time to consider the future and what impression they want to leave the public with.

Cost alone cannot be the issue if customers are willing to bear the cost... maybe its time, man power, working out the kinks or maybe it was intentional. I am not saying that every business must accommodate every customer’s request but if they choose not too, it would be a good business practice in the highly competitive market to put forth sound reasons for not doing so after being accused of discrimination and poor customer service. The explanation of pre-ordering does not help because although it provides the source of the problem, it does not address whether SPICE intended this result or whether SPICE wishes to accommodate customers and will make efforts to do so now or in the future.

Pre-ordering was in the past, what are you dealing with in the present? At this point we know what to expect... masqueraders know if they don't register early for Spice front-line or otherwise, they will NOT be accommodated. The message is loud and clear. Basically deal with another band---and luckily, there are other great options left. If as a result of this, SPICE chooses to change how they negotiate their supply or how they deal with unanticipated requests, it would be in their interest to advertise this widely as an attempt to address a wide pubic concern.

trutrutrini said...

Hot girl, doh study dem. U doing a good job. Tell Spice they have to double what dey paying yuh. It have plenty of us that following dis blog and while we doh alweys comment I must say that you and the Spice team doing a real good job of explaining things.Stay strong girl. Leave dem people to beat up deyself and you do yuh do. A crew of us the redblacknwhite coming in to sign up next week, any chances of still geeting into the light blue section?

Hot said...

Thanks trini for those words of encouragement, beleive you me some days I ask myself why M stuck me with this job.

The light blue you refer to is Meilotot Bleu and is sold out although a little birdie told me that one of the shareholders who paid down on a very large block of costumes in this section has agreed to move his people over to another section to accomodate the demand for additional costumes in the section. Now I will probably get killed for releasing this information publicly and maybe some bloggers will get their wish and I'll get fired. Hi M :)......anyway trini as always the early BIRDS catch the worm....did I say Birds :)

squeezle said...

Sooooooo, on one hand they boasting that they had 24 plus-sized frontlines available, and on the other hand they say that half of those were taken by committee members. Therefore, in reality, ONLY 12 plus-sized frontline costumes were available to the general public.

Lemme just walk away before I get an aneurysm from all this heavy-duty eyerolling Spice have me doing here.

dougla_1 said...

Thank you bignbeautiful (I have no affiliation to Spice, I am playing in TRIBE). It is about REALISTICALLY assessing YOUR needs. Fighting up to play in a very LIMITED segment of the band is well, just kicking up a tantrum, imho. For sure, large women should not be relegated to the so called "cloth mas," but a little reality is in order when choosing a section in a bikini mas band (i.e. there is an upper weight and size limit to be accomodated in a Ferrari sports car.) Again, I acknowledge the issue of Saucy's post is really about accommodating a larger breast size.

And for the record, I like thick women (today in the subway NYC, I was drooling at a woman with amazing long legs...she was in short pants...thick, shapely, perfect from thigh and calves, though she was not really a thick, thick ting :))

Ernest said...

this woman is being ridiculous. frontline space in a band is limited therefore it would make sense that if spice had 2 preorder, they would have done so with their averages. and now obviously, they can no longer sell what they don't have.

yall need 2 stop B.S.ing and be real. if all the "average and extra small" costumes in frontline had been sold out and it was a skinny girl who had been turned back because of that, this whole uproar would not have occurred but because it was a "bigger" girl, you see discrimination written all over it and some of u r taking it personally bcoz u urselves r "bigger" masqueraders.

TROLL Buster said...

Hot is like a commess agent, every minute the troll coming back to say something. Finish off!!! She is so unprofessional, and now she bring other trolls to comment as well.

A blind man could see what the real issue is here, Spice doh want no heavy people to spoil the image they want to portray.

I have been silently reading this blog for a long time and I just had to say my piece.

Dougla_1 it does not matter what the issue is, you ALWAYS have to be an extremist and make disparaging remarks. Are you a HATER??? I have been reading your comments for a long time now, you never make any sense.

With the exception of the TROLLS, the rest of you well said!!!

carnivalbaby said...

"If the pre-ordering method adopted by the band is not acceptable to some then so be it, but you all have a wide variety of choices, so if your size is no longer available don't complain just move on to another option, its really that simple."

The preceeding was an excerpt from an earlier post by 'hot' on behalf of spice.......WHAT A CLASS ACT.

SHAME ON YOU SPICE.

innerouterdivaPON said...

To some extent I do agree with Ernest. I have been reading since the initial "expose" and it seems this entire issue has become a "big women get no love" rant and has strayed far away from the original issue which (correct me if I am wrong) was the fact that it was believed that Spice was unwilling to accommodate the request of a well-endowed masquerader.

Even when HOT came on to explain that the masquerader was offered her size in another section and refused, people kept attacking her. Now don't get me wrong, pre-ordering of materials has put Spice in this awkward position and hopefully they will learn from this and be better prepared for subsequent years (should they chose to stick around). However, unless someone has inside information and PROOF that Spice is lying and they do have room in the frontline and just don't want to accommodate this lady because of her size, I think we should do HOT the courtesy of believing what she has stated THE SAME WAY everyone jumped on board to believe the first version that was told. Give credit where credit is due. At least Spice is attempting to clarify the issue. Unless I missed something, the lady in question has not commented to clear the air. We are only reading versions of her story and not getting anything from the horse's mouth.

If it is that the frontline is sold out, then what does it matter whether or not she wants to provide her own bra? I cannot go to Tribe and ask them to put me in a frontline or backline because I am willing to pay extra and supply my own materials. SOLD OUT MEANS SOLD OUT! You snooze, you lose. So again, I say, if someone knows for a fact that there IS room in Paprika FL, please speak up cause then and only then will it be true that Spice is in fact discriminating and has decided that they have met their FL quota of full-figured masqueraders.

Additionally, and people are free to attack me for saying this, but I am the ONLY person wondering what the hell a 44DDD cup wants with that Paprika FL???? I mean people should be free to play in whatever section they want yes, but some of the stuff we wear for Carnival is already (literally) bordering on illegal. I don't think bands are wrong for saying no in some cases; for their own longevity if nothing else.

browneyeztrini said...

I am a big chested woman. I've always had problems with ordering costumes and the bra not always fitting well, so I understand slightly the blight of plus-size women having a harder time with mas costume sizing. But I just wanted to comment on a couple issues.

1. I think part of the reason why so many people are upset is because of what story they've heard. I know, at least in my case, that since I didn't hear the story from the actual person's mouth, I TECHNICALLY don't know what really happened. And so far I've heard several variations of this story. I'm not saying ANYONE HAS LIED; but a story can change in detail just it being passed from person to person. So try not to fault people that are taking it personally; they are upset at what they're hearing happened. When I initially heard the story of a woman being told that there was no way the band could cater to her size in any section, that made me upset whether she had been small or large. But also, if M is right and they had tried to get her into another section or into backline, that wouldn't have upset me. So it depends on what we've heard. And again, I'm not saying anything I've heard or read is TRUTH OR FALSE.

2. I think the Spice reps compared themselves to bands like TRIBE to push points that they were making but we can't really compare Spice to bands that are more well-known. I may be wrong about this, and if I am, I do apologize; but I would think if you're just starting out, you wouldn't have as much sponsors, thus not as much funding. So the ways that you supply your product wouldn't be as diverse as a more well-known chain. Bands like TRIBE and IP are more well-known chains to me. And I'm sure they could've taken their money to another supplier, but if none of us have started a mas business from inception to growth, how can we say where they should go and how they should run it? NOTE: If you have created and ran a successful mas business and know that what I'm saying is wrong, I apologize.

3. That being said, I still think as a new band, maybe Spice could have told people this beforehand. So even if a potential masquerader was upset about her particular size no longer being available, it was at least presented before that they had pre-ordered sizes and those individual sizes can sell out. I just think the more info a potential buyer is given, the easier it is to make an informed choice or go elsewhere. I think the lack of information is what upsets me. An example is, on Tribe's website, for the section Green Honeycreeper, they stated that if you were past a certain size, they do not recommend the O ring bra. In reading that I knew, "ok, my girls are not going to fit in that" and I could've either still signed up, knowing I would get another bra or find another section.

Mas-ah said...

innerouterdivapon wrote:

but I am the ONLY person wondering what the hell a 44DDD cup wants with that Paprika FL????

Innerouterdivapon you should change your name to outerdivapon because that comment just reeks of a fetid inside not at all becoming of a diva.

I am in absolute shock that you would say something so extremely discriminatory and hateful.

Do you have any idea how many people's feelings and self image you damage with such comments?

shame, shame, shame upon you.

next time, sweetheart, i advise you think it but don't say it, please!!

Saucy aka "The Sauce" said...

Hot is right re: the fact that I omitted M's real name and yes I do know M and M knows me.

I have not digested all the comments so forgive me if I do not jump in and state a position at this time.

innerouterdivaPON said...

Well mas-ah, thank you for your feedback. I did say that people would be free to attack what I said and I stand by that. Everyone here has shared an opinion (popular or not) and even you have come under attack in the past for sharing your opinions, but that has not stopped you and nor should it.

My only response is that you are out of line to assume that you know my inside because of ONE comment, especially since that one comment does not encompass everything I have ever said, done or will do in my life. Again, you are entitled to your opinion. God bless.

If someone's self image was damaged because I voiced that I think their breasts will fall out of a wired bra, my sincere apologies. It's a wonder you focused on that part of the comment, but ignored right after when I basically said that there's a (legal) reason some bands put limits on sizing in certain sections.

Interpret however you will, but my point was not that at a certain size women shouldn't be in a FL. It was that very big breasts and a PAPRIKA FL costume, that is barely there as is, are not a good combination. If the masquerader wants to play in it, all well and good. All I was saying is that some kind of reason must also be taken into consideration.

A few years back there was a HUGE issue with women with very small breasts wearing pasties on the road for Carnival. That was the basis when I made my last comment. If small breasts and pasties caused an uproar, 44DDD and a wired bra (in my humble opinion) won't fare much better.

Thanks again for your opinion. Always good to see things from another p.o.v

Dara said...

Saucy, it’s no small wonder that you haven't digested all of the comments, because some of them are simply indigestible!

I read this blog faithfully, but never comment mainly because of the sometimes venomous activity which takes place in this comment box.

Innerouterdivapon made a very valid point, in that, if you are a certain size, certain attire will not work for you, it is not a plus size thing or an XS thing. Why in heaven's name would anybody want to fit a size 44XYZ breast size, into a WIRE BRA??? You need to know you body and the limits you can go to or SHOULD go to. Therefore if a carnival band is not offering a certain size in a certain style costume, be thankful that they saved you from yourself and move on to a more appropriate costume!!!!!

dougla_1 said...

Well said dara.

Keeping-it-real said...

Well said Dara. Let us just for one moment assume it is Paprika frontline this person wants to play in, have you folks seen the bra for that section. Come on now, a 40DDD SHOULD never even think about wanting to parade around all day without adequate support......come now folks, you need to keep it real.

KayaKitty said...

Does the AVERAGE PERSON believe that they really begin producing carnival costumes in JANUARY??

Give the public some credit and assume they are as bright as you think you are. I think most of us with sense assume that production begins after registration for those bands that do launching and registration early.

As for the rest, the real issue is pre-ordering. If a band pre-orders sizes, then that is just another factor people can use to decide whether to play with them.

And if a band won't decorate a bra a customer provides them, that is yet another reason to refuse them.

Mas bands need to remember that the number of people you alienate because of those issues is multiplied because people have a tendency to play with a crew in a band. Only they can decide whether that is an acceptable loss for them.

chinup said...

well sorry to hear of all this mess involving the bra, but I'm hoping "M" is still around and can answer me why Senvia is the ONLY option of payment for Spice costumes on the site. What happened to PayPal?? I have sent an email and haven't received a response as yet. Me and 4 friends are all ready to sign up so what's the story? Senvia only yuh sayin? cus that won't cut it

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