A masquerader from Brian Mc Farlane’s Africa recently sent me an email disagreeing with one of the reviews that I had posted where the author listed problems that she had with that band for 2009. During our email correspondence this masquerader seemed to intimate that only people who wore “real mas” LOVED mas and that there was no “creativity” in bikini mas. Here is our conversation:
His Response:
I just wanted to respond to the feedback that you got about Macfarlane's presentation Africa for 2009. I disagree with almost everything said. I have been playing with the band since its inception and I had no problems collecting my costume. There was clear communication about how to put it together and as for the impracticalness of his designs...well they are not for Las Vegas showgirls and their male lackeys.
They are meant to be worn by people who love mas and want to preserve our creative culture which is dying unfortunately. The designs are always better than the sketches in my opinion and I think as players we all get excited to inspect the costumes we did not choose. The only thing I can agree with is that there is a great family feel in the band and I see people every year that I am not friends with and we hug and chip happily together and look forward to seeing each other. It is such a great treat that my friend travels from Spain and he is on his third year with the band.
I wish more bands would return to the days of Leung, Garib, Minshall and the like... It would preserve Carnival rather than destroy it with the monotony of replicas of bikini mas in abundance. Sorry to sound frustrated but I love my country and my mas and we all have the right to play where we like - whether it be a bikini or something more elaborate. I look forward to the traditional costumes that the band will be wearing in 2010 though.
My response:
It is interesting that the general thought is only people who appreciate the "art" in mas love mas,. I LOVE all genres of mas, be it the fully clothes, scantily clad and traditional characters as I love the expression that playing mas is interpreted by many. For me there is no one box to tick or one code to adhere to that says Mas should be enjoyed in a particular way, it is all about freedom.
I for one do not see out creativity dying, naturally you are entitled to your opinion on this but I have always seen the ideal of mas being all varieties co existing together. People cannot play only ONE type of mas. That is not growth, it is stagnation and THAT will surely kill the culture.
On that note I think the reinvention of the bikini mas year after year is much more difficult than people give the young designers credit for.
His response:
I think we will agree to disagree re. Your statement 'People cannot play only ONE type of mas. That is not growth, it is stagnation and THAT will surely kill the culture.' I never said one type of mas was what I wanted...I stated that several designers in the past were creative hence my feeling that without a creative lead the art form will assume its new format - beads, bikinis and feathers. I also disagree with your idea that it takes work to design a bikini band.. It is simply changing the colour because it is all 'abstract' as nothing really pertains to the true design concept...eg. I can't remember which band did an Asian theme this year and they simply gave a Japanese style umbrella to its masqueraders in various sections. I laughed when the commentator said they consulted an embassy for accuracy.
I am happy for the bikini band to exist just not dominate as it is now. I think there is no going back as women have decided they want skimpy and men follow. Sadly I think as an example if Tribe, Island People and Harts tried to add to their costumes and make them more elaborate the masqueraders will go elsewhere looking for the almighty bikini.
Macfarlane, Gabriel and the countless others who preserve traditional mas on smaller scales are all we have left and someday they too will be gone - what will we have then?
My response:
Well TRIBE's presentation was more than just the bra and bikini, there was one section with a full skirt option that was worn well by many ladies. Also I have been at the mas camp seeing them make the costumes and it is not easy; lots of little detail, that will be overlooked by those with myopia who lump all bikini bands in the same category. There are some very elaborately decorated costumes in bikini mas and I can tell you that the headpieces, tails and collars that TRIBE did this year as well as materials used in Island People were not simply changing the colour.
We masqueraders can pick up on a recycled costume design so the leaders in that genre do have to come with fresh and innovative designs each year. Unfortunately this is not something that is appreciated by those who do not take the time to study the costumes. I ask you to take a look at TRIBEs costumes this year, headpieces and everything and show me one costume that looks EXACTLY like last year's in a different colour and you can do the same for Island People as well.
His response:
I am really not that interested in looking at their costumes for that long.
My response:
I am sorry you cannot be as interested as many who play bikini mas are interested in Mc Farlane. Anyway for me there will always be room for everyone as I LOVE my carnival!
Now I know that I am obviously biased being someone who is a wholehearted supporter of the bikini, beads and LOTS of feathers (I would say copious but my friend pointed out that I love that word too much). However I honestly do believe that bikini mas DONE RIGHT is creative.
I will agree that there are some bikini bands that slap a generic name on a costume which ends up looking abstract (as was pointed out) and looks nothing like the theme. Similarly, not every band that drapes fabric on their masqueraders can boast creativity as well. Some designers simply use loads of fabric to separate themselves from the bikini mas but how creative is it to keep repeating designs that we were first done by Peter Minshall? Every year someone “reinvents” Tan Tan and Saga Boy!
And I have a big problem with the superior elitist attitude of persons who look down on bikini mas, not even taking the time to acknowledge that there is creativity and that it is not just changing the colour every year. For the ones who examine each and every nuance of the costume, there are differences. There was not one costume in either TRIBE or Island People for 2009 that looked exactly like one from 2008! The headpieces and tails in TRIBE were genius, absolutely gorgeous and when you viewed the band holistically the masqueraders represented the Birds quite well.
There is more I would like to say concerning Mc Farlane and his creativity of turning fabric from Jimmy Aboud into Africa this year; however my issue is not with Mc Farlane or even the domination of bikini mas; I think I summed up all my feelings on that one in my Carnival Castro post last year. Anyway, I pose the question to you; in your opinion is there creativity in “bikini mas”? Or am I the myopic one who is imagining that there is not only creativity but differences as well?
I will agree that there are some bikini bands that slap a generic name on a costume which ends up looking abstract (as was pointed out) and looks nothing like the theme. Similarly, not every band that drapes fabric on their masqueraders can boast creativity as well. Some designers simply use loads of fabric to separate themselves from the bikini mas but how creative is it to keep repeating designs that we were first done by Peter Minshall? Every year someone “reinvents” Tan Tan and Saga Boy!
And I have a big problem with the superior elitist attitude of persons who look down on bikini mas, not even taking the time to acknowledge that there is creativity and that it is not just changing the colour every year. For the ones who examine each and every nuance of the costume, there are differences. There was not one costume in either TRIBE or Island People for 2009 that looked exactly like one from 2008! The headpieces and tails in TRIBE were genius, absolutely gorgeous and when you viewed the band holistically the masqueraders represented the Birds quite well.
There is more I would like to say concerning Mc Farlane and his creativity of turning fabric from Jimmy Aboud into Africa this year; however my issue is not with Mc Farlane or even the domination of bikini mas; I think I summed up all my feelings on that one in my Carnival Castro post last year. Anyway, I pose the question to you; in your opinion is there creativity in “bikini mas”? Or am I the myopic one who is imagining that there is not only creativity but differences as well?
22 comments:
Saucy sorry to say this But Its True You have a Myopic Vision Of What Carnival Is.
But guess what ALMOST EVERYBODY has that same vision.. Because the reality Is that everybody thinks differently has different likes, dislikes and expectations for what Carnival Should be.
I agree with you there is Creativity In Bikini Mas, and I also agreee that there is Creativity In "Traditional Mas" as you would call it. as far as i'm concerned anyone who plays Mas and Prefers to parade themselves in whichever type of mas Band Is free to do so, and Is an extension of their Personal Preference and Expression.
I believe that Carnival Could NOT survive With a Totality Of one or the Other , It would Be boring and Monotonous, and as far as im concerned BIKINI MAS will NEVER REPLACE TRADITIONAL MAS TOTALLY.. That is an Impossible and Asinine idea that Bias people use to scare or make people feel guilty into Trying to preserve the past.
Also I believe that there are many Mas Bands TODAY(BIG ONES) that Do Have Zero To Little Creativity in their Bikini mas..But those "Farts" sell out their Cookie cutter band Every year.
Anyhow sauce Doh feel Bad, Because you Like one thing over the other, prefer "Beads and Feathers" over "Cloth and Standards". It really boils down to what you like How you feel and Where you Money "Jumpin up".
I will like you though to Please Tell anyone who DON'T PLAY mas to take their comments and Shove it, because they contribute Nothing to what they are criticizing. If they are so inclined to critique then they should be contributing by Supporting the culture in some meaningful way. Either By Playing Or creating and sustaining our culture.
"If Yuh Know BETTER, Do! BETTER"
As a masquerader, I would have to say that there is definite creativity in bikini mas. Some people think it's just sticking feathers on a ready made swimsuit etc, when it's clearly so much more. To execute a theme perfectly without being fully clothed is quite the feat. Mas is different to each and everyone. Some people just need to understand it's not going to be the same for each and every one of us.
1. Is there creativity in “bikini mas”? Defintely. Some designers and bands just execute the concept better than others. To me it seems a whole lot more difficult to portray a theme using a two-piece bikini/tankini and beads/feathers. More creativity seems required.
2. Or am I the myopic one who is imagining that there is not only creativity but differences as well? Nah I agree with you. Not all bands do the generic route. Personally I think seeing a redo of Tan Tan each and every year is a cop-out and sometimes its just there and has no bearing whatsoever on the theme of the band. TRIBE's presentation this year was done well and I heard many non-masqueraders mention that their 'birds' presentation was well done, it was believable.
I personally think that the two genres of costumes have their place. The traditional costumes and concepts of cloth cannot remain as the only option, cause then there would be no evolution. As the saying goes "the only constant is change".
my $0.02
Saucy
I for one, love my beads and bikini- it contributes to the general attitude of bacchanalia and excess that I love about Carnival.
That said, I think comparing the bikini mas to the less abstract costumes ("cloth mas") will inevitably result in failure because we cannot compare like with unlike. It is like comparing Soca Monarch to the Dimanche Gras (I am a lover of both).
To say that lovers of Bikini Mas do not like Carnival is a mis statement. Mas players of all kinds love Carnival. No one set of Mas Players love Carnival more than the other. Lovers of the bikini mas may prefer one aspect of mas playing over others. For some, its revelry and fun in the sun, for other mas players its preserving culture and tradition. That does NOT make any of us wrong. I remember sometimes buying two costumes (once to play a beleh dancer cause I liked the skirt) on the Monday and the second day to choose something more skimpy. So for mas players its not mutually exclusive.
There is a certain level of creativity with the bikini mas (Tribe, and even to some extent Trini Revellers) had some pretty amazing feathers, collars, "skirts" and addenda to make the costumes less abstract. However,I would like to see "wire bending" like I used to see as a kid- a tomato actually had a backpack that was the shape of a slice of a tomato, drums were actually drums mounted on your back, and butterflies (overdone!) had antennae and wings. I do miss that. Some of the bikini costumes today could literally fall into any section in a band. So I would have to agree that to some extent, there is a certain laziness on the part of some designers in taking the easy option.
What I do know however, is that there will be always a place for the more traditional type bands. Culture needs to evolve (and not stagnate) but we must also not forsake what we know so that we are "with the times". I for one, when I am in my 50s and 60s would not be playing bikini mas (not knocking anyone who does, its my personal choice as to what I feel is appropriate) and would love to play with a nice ole time band chipping down de road.
So long and short is, we need to have both. And it would be nice if big bands like Tribe and Island People had BOTH.
I believe that there is creativity in all types of mas and no one genre is better than the other.
My mother loves to play bikini mas in the states, but she goes to Trini the only Mas she plays is sailor. She searches high and low for all of the pins and decorations for her costume, to her that’s the ideal experience. I never understood sailor mas and thought it was the same overly decorated mas every year. I swore that the used the same décor from 5 years ago. But when I actually seem the band in full force for carnival, my mind changed drastically. From then on, I appreciated all types of mas, because the band looked wonderful on the road. I never saw any band as more elite than the other. Whether its Harts, Tribe, Island People, or Mcfarlane. If you look at the pics of McFarlane’s band, he does have some of his masqueraders that prefer to be Skimpy and her caters to them just as he would any other paying customer, just as a lot of other bands do. This year I was shocked to see a lot of older women playing in IP that wore long skirts and Tankinis made to suit them. My mom actually loved Natural Mystic and stated that if she was going to trying she would have a special costume made in that section. Mas is different for everyone and people should appreciate the creativity that the designer put into each costume. Some people may follow the same format for mas but that can said with a lot of bands and not just bands that use Bikini and beads. I can guarantee that everyone’s critique will be different but just remember the feeling that a person is suppose to get while they are in a costume, the joy and pride that they feel. This is what’s most important giving someone that unforgettable feeling whether they are half naked or fully clothed.
So funny that I actually had the exact same argument with a Vincy friend of mine who could not understand why I was so upset that I didn't make it to carnival this year to, in his words, "wear a panty and bra which is completely destroying the true culture of carnival". My response to that was long and well argued but to cut down for this purpose, my argument was along the same lines as yours Saucy. Mas comes in all forms. I've been playing mas since I was a child and I remember seeing my mother jumping up in Poison in bikini as well as Minchell with her more elaborate pieces but the fact still remains that it is all inclusive. Just because I do not play with McFarlane doesn't mean that I do not respect or that I dislike the creativity behind what is presented. I just happen to love my bikini mas and yes....feathers and headpieces..the bigger, the better. And yes, I also think the thought and creativity that the younger bands such as Tribe and IslandPeople and others have to put to use year after year is being overlooked. I am a Triber but I will be honest and say that I always look forward to IP's presentation because it is always creative and original.
At the end of the day, what is beautiful about our culture is that there is something for everyone and we all find enjoyment in our own way.
I agree with both parties to a certain extent,,,yes in the past and even today you see bands portraying "bikini mas" that you think "oh well..same thing different colour"..and sometimes you think "but wait, this has nothing to do with the theme!" ..however, i have seen progress over the years. I have seen development in creativity for bikini mas after having played for a while and I know it is getting better.
I personally love my bikini mas. I have no problem at all with other types of mas,its just that i prefer one over the other...and...I have all rights to do just that....play with who i want. I loved Peter Minshall's designs and so forth,,,same with Mc Farlane, but...at the end of the day i may not play with them because for carnival in the blazin sun or pouring rain...i want what makes me comfortable...what makes me feel good.....and that's my choice.
And as Saucy correctly said,,,even in bikini mas for certain bands, there are more covered options....I know Harts for one, they almost always have options with skirts or veils or fabric in the front or back....Tribe as well...when I played with Titania in '08, there was an option with a lengthy skirt.
Having both is essential as this gives us the option. They both represent our culture. They are both creative and ever evolving. Like everyone else....i just have my preference.
Is there creativity in bikini mas? In my opinion, YES there is.
I think for many people who dislike "bikini mas" the mindset is that regardless of bead work, feathers, sequins etc, the foundation of the costume is a bikini and therefore no creativity is involved; at the end of the day it's still a bikini.
What these people ignore is that by definition "creativity" involves using the imagination. If a designer can take the same bikini year after year and transform it into something completely different from what it was, how can I not see the creativity in that? I may say that I don't like the nudity, or that I don't like always seeing feathers...but I cannot in all fairness say that there is no creativity and no imagination!
The argument can be made that year after year we know Mac Farlane is going to come with yards of cloth so therefore there is no creativity in his band. For me this is not true because in my opinion, the creativity comes from the fact that each year he finds a way to transform the cloth into a look that portrays the essence of his presentation. Creativity is subjective and sometimes people argue creativity when it really comes down to nothing but their preferences.
Another gripe I have is this notion that "bikini mas" is killing the art form, and "traditional mas" is the only "real mas" left. Carnival today is so far evolved from what it originally was in 1839 (when Carnival as we know it was first seen) and that's because our culture has evolved, and I am thankful for that. If not for the changes, the rich among us would still be having their private masquerade balls, while the poor would be having their versions of the ball in their backyards and side streets. Point is that change is a part of survival; in nature and in culture. "Bikini mas" is just another adaptation of one aspect of our ever changing culture. If calypso never changed we would have no soca and I dunno about anyone else, but I love my soca so I say bring on the changes!!! :D
HEY SAUCE I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY I BELIEVE EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN VISION OF WHAT CARNIVAL SHOULD BE BUT THERE IS NO NEED FOR HIM TO CRITICIZE SOMEONE THAT IS PLAYING BIKINI MAS, I BELIEVE THAT EACH BAND MAKES COSTUMES FOR EVERYONE'S TASTE AND LIKE YOU I REALLY LOVE THE BIKINI'S I JUMP UP IN EVERY YEAR!
Saucy do you know if the author of that correspondence with you is MacFarlane himself???
I agree with everyone here. Especially CityChick, she took the words right out of my mouth. So here's my added bit.
I love that Carnival has different aspects on the road: from sailor mas, to AllStars with pan,to Macfarlane's "high mas", to the swimsuit and feathers parade. This variety makes Trinidad Carnival special.
For a moment I was worried that Carnival was becoming one big old parade of bikinis, cheap floral appliques and cheap Christmas tree beads from the 99cent store.
But then that changed in the last 4years. Designers started to take stock and bring fresh ideas to the sexy mas. Now there are more fabric pieces incorporated into the bikinis and belts. And the headpieces are fabulous and taking feathers to another direction.
The themes are not so abstract anymore therefore the costumes can start to make sense (Remember Poison's 2006 "Dreams": Yikes). Masqueraders and onlookers alike do want costumes to make sense. And why not. I think we've all had a sensory overload of abstract costumes. Sometimes literal is good.
Now I am a sexy mas kind of girl and I welcome beads, feathers, and fabric in a costume. The possibilites are endless. And cloth does not even have to be excessive. Just enough for the sexy tastes: think last year with IP's Great Egret sheer short skirt and TRIBE Lady of the Lake frontline with a gorgeous cape and skirt option. The key is to not look like something you wore last year or year before.
Thank God Carnival have something for everybody and more designers are challenged to bring it.
In my opinion this man is soley wrong if he believes that Mac Farlane is the only traditionalist in trinidad carnival or they just wearing blinkers??
for the first time i managed to attend alot of the carnival parades including traditional mas parade and childrens parade! aand i witnessed a typically traditional Mas being portrayed, i also believe bands like Trini Revellers and Dkrewe are carrying on the traditional/bikini mix quite well! however i do feel Tribe and Island People are holding down a more elaborate version of the Bikini mas genre i feel like they are offering a little bit more than that by adding fabrics flowing from belts, collors to overly elaborate visually impacting costumes less we forget the days when bikini mas was simply a bikini wit 3 strands of beads and not much visual impact!
i appreciate the Minshals, garibs, Lee heungs and Berkleys of the yesteryear mas era but im sue when they brought out thier new concepts people were prob having the same conversations we having now the move from going down de road as Firemen, Bats, Imps, dame Lorraines etc its all progression and i welcome that!!
although i also welcome the Visual spectacle Mac Farlane produces year after year i feel like 50% of it i have seen before weather it be a Minshall repeat or simply a re hash of his previous designs, there are only so many ways you can make cloth flow and wave fabric etc, the core of a Mac Farlane theme is a solid story line to capitvate the audience once he has that he has won!!
my vexation with this method for instance was his King costume that lion thing winning this years Demanche Gras it should never of won! the costume made it on stage after 2 mins of swaying from side to side on de ramp up i thought it was going to collapse! then it finally tip toed accross the stage no dancing, no turning nothing jus headed straight accross and off and won??? that was a joke!!!
i know inovation is apart of the scoring but movement, performance and mobility of the costume must be a big part too?? and the costume failed on all 3 so why did it win??
cos its a Mac Farlane costume lol
anyway i think thats all i have to say
Lets not get in McFarlane's King and Queen, thats a topic by itself. I was so confused when they told me which costumes won. Personally the costumes looked like Jr Queen and Kings than Adult King and Queen. Granted the queen was beautiful and indeed original, but I was baffled with the decision of the judges to choose both costumes, especially the king.
oooops sorry i buss open a wholenew can of worms lol i thought i was he only confussed one lol
No Jennifer the author was not Mr Mc Farlane.
This is difficult I think because I love bikini mas, BUT I think there is a valid point in claiming that many costumes tend to be generic in different colours OVERALL.
Furthermore, I think that the problem is evident by the fact that examples of creativity have to be drawn from minority frontline costumes, rather than the majority regular costumes. Surely this should be consistent and impressive throughout the band, rather than individual examples here and there.
Furthermore, as stunning as feathered headpieces and tails may be, and detailed as the beading may be...let's be honest...It is not entirely unique (Rio, Vegas!). This makes the creativity argument a more difficult one.
That being said, I do think bikini mas has come a long way, especially in recent years. I have only ever played with Harts (6 yrs) and Tribe (3yrs). And I am genuinely pleased that the bar is consciously and consistently raised each year.
Discussions like this are great, because they(hopefully)remind band leaders that they need to be consistently "on the ball" to stay ahead of the game, or even just to survive. Plus it hopefully gets masqueraders thinking more about the level of their expectations for the $$ they put out. And dare I say, demanding to be satisfied as well.
SAUCY this debate will NEVER EVER end, we all know the truth an incredible amount of creative energy goes into mas full stop.
But look at our history.
Then look at the present.
I think the problem Mas purest have with bikini mas is proliferation.
The sheer number bands that choose to do this mas is crazy .
It is very difficult to tell who is who in mas these days, unless you study mas like a lot of us do all these bands actually look like one band!
Let’s be honest here.
Mac Farlane could win band of the year for the next 10 years hands down, only because there is not one band to give him a run for his money...not one.
I received my Trinidad Carnival magazine last week and it simply can’t get worse some lovely women hell yeah but great Mas hell no, that’s why photographers have to zoom in to take pictures, capture faces and hopefully some detail.
The era when Mas was a visual spectacular is a thing of the past.
It boggle’s the mind that this generation, with more opportunities, technical advancements, economic power and educational facilities at their very finger tips are not the icons of cultural and creative progress, but the seeds of creative regression.
And can’t see it.
In my opinion there are a minority of bands who just do the bikini thing BUT..... they are a minority. To me I can see the creativity even in bikini mas, when TRIBE or IP comes up with a theme the way they portray it and especially at the band launched (which i believe demonstrates even more creativity) you truly see what the band is about. I think if people would encompass all of that from launch to the day we hit the road then they would understand better. Otherwise they just watch on the road and say they see a bathing suit in colours and nothing else.
I find the guy who wrote to you quite close minded and selfish that he would say "I am really not that interested in looking at their costumes for that long." He doesnt WANT to see trhe creativity. And sadly thats something prominent with a lot of people they make up their minds that they dont like the skimpy bikinis and hence see no beauty in it.
All i can say is the bikin mas is well supported and going nowhere. once I can see the creativity and justify the money I am spending my carnival will be a most enjoyable one. I'll still support the traditional bands and people like Mc farlane because carnival encompasses more than on genre and I LOVE CARNIVAL!!
I agree with Mas Asassin
the thing is, no matter how many feathers, sequins or whatever you decorate it with, a bikini is a bikini, it is a template from which the design is created. you can't get away from that...and because of that, unless you do something completely revolutionary, besides adding a skirt..it will look the same or at least similar...year after year
the question we must ask ourselves is why the general public often times bemoans this...even the minister of culture who visited several mas camps this year, spoke of the similarity in mas bands, with the exception of mac farlane whose costumes she was happy to see.
to be honest you have to study the bands closely to diffrentiate one from the other..if you are not a follower of mas design, you wouldn't know who from who.
I would say though that looking at tribe's headpieces espeically was the saving grace of that band.
I still maintain, that the gp is facilitating the dearth of mas, by supporting the "all inclusive/exclusive" which is more than just the bikini and beads template..its a whole culture that has evolved i think that is eltist in its own way. Mas bands of old, or even more traditional mas, there was a community feel, a familial feel that is just not there anymore..call it a by product of capitalist infiltration...i dunno.
sometimes persons on both sides of the fence don't like to admit the truth because in doing that they are faced with some harsh realities.
Saucy you are clearly biased toward one prototype and that is your entitlement,others choose to be different. and the debate will never end.
yes there needs to be variety in mas..that is exactly what I advocate as a carnival castro...too much of one thing is never good.
Oh yeah one more thing..
about 3 years ago, I particiapted in a final project for a student at UWI who did carnival studies, in which we had to design a costume...as part of the project we spoke to several mas designers, who came to lecture about their experiences in mas.
I found it interesting that the mas designer who did the bikini and beads mas, didn't speak much about research, but just gave a 'quick fix' explanation as to how the costume designs were finalised...ready made appliques from samaroos mixed and matched. As a person who understands the design process fairly well, i found it to be insulting that this person would rank themselves with the title..mas designer.
i think too a lot of mas designers especially peter samuel, has been bemoaning the fact that most of our mas now is 'MADE IN CHINA' so we are slowly losing our wire benders and other people who make mas..i think the 'operations manager' of harts was boasting that all of their costumes are made with local hands...
that too is something to consider under the umbrella of creativity.
VERY TRUE Aneka
Creativity and love in the production aspect is just an integral part as the sketch on paper for Trinidad carnival. No matter what kind of mas it is.
I enjoyed going to the mas camp with my father as a child to "help" make costumes. And I am talking about big bands.
I am still in my 20s, so thats not generations ago. I wonder how many children have those experiences now?
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